This woman must follow the rules of health in pools, she is confusing health regulations with discrimination.
As a man living in France, I would love to wear a Bermuda but I must follow rules and wear a speedo or trunks!
There is no dram here!

When I visited Egypt as a French civilian, I covered my arms, legs and hair. Partly to not be harrassed and mostly to protect myself from extremist who think women should be hidden from society.
I agree with the French government, this is NOT about religion. It's about CONTROL over women. IF a muslim woman doesn't dress as MEN say, then she gets acid thrown on her or is killed.
My sister who lived 3 years in Saudi Arabia could not leave her house to shop without her husband. Even then, people came to steal pices of her blond hair. She decided to wear the chador to protect herself.
If these women want to dress that way, they can go to a country that DEMANDS it!

This is a situation where members of so called minority communities in Europe and America are trying to subvert the laws applicable to the vast majority in the name of religious tolerance. It is only in the west that we have these issues of tolerance, debate and acceptance of such issues. The sad commentary is that the debate is getting raked up with the taint of religion where the original issue relates to equality and conformance to the rules that have been set in place for the protection of the common good. In a country which believes in the separation of religion and state, where even Christians are not allowed to specifically display religious symbols or related items, I see this as a debate which is much ado about nothing and should not be glorified with air time elsewise, tomorrow another special interest group will look at raising an issue which is applicable to the majority and seek to circumvent it under some dubious ground or the other. Furthermore, the lady from Gallup stated that this is an issue which affects a person who has been part of general French society for a significant amount of time, I do not understand how that gives a person license to ask for special treatment when rules applicable to all are to be done away with on such a frivolity. All I have to say to her is it reminds me of the time I lived in the Gulf. Try following the standards of your culture and religion (if you are christian and a westerner) there and let me know what the reception is, then we can have a meaningful debate and a discussion of tolerance and cultural integration.

A truly free society would allow me to stand naked in a crowded theater and shout "fire!".

Hala:

I was at the Hilton Hotel in Burg El Arab near Alexandria, Egypt in 2005. The director of the hotel, a Middle Eastern man, was explaining to me that he would tell women not to bathe fully-clothed in the pool for hygienic reasons and to go into the sea. The women would refuse to listen and he would get insulted by the husbands! So he called the city and ask them to send the hotel a notice stating that people could not bathe clothed in the pool for hygienic reasons and that violators would be sanctioned. It solved the problem. The women were not wearing burqini but were fully clothed with abbaya, but the principle is the same. And this was Egypt.

I'm a Canadian attorney currently working in Saudi Arabia. France is not being intolerant on this issue! Saudi Arabia and a great many Muslim countries are less tolerant with their own nationals than most Western countries are with their "non-nationals" or, as in this case, their "national converts". This woman can always come to Saudi. But they may not let her in unless she is accompanied by her husband and has her marriage certificate! And if they do let her in, she will soon find herself wishing she were back in France.

Enjoy watching you, by the way.

Donald
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
13.08.2009

The French ban on thre Burqini swimsuit is sheer discrimination.

Swimmers wear Speedo full-body swimwear with swimming caps for the Olympics. What is the difference between the two?

The only difference is that the Burqini swimsuit was worn by a Muslim woman.

This is open discrimination against Muslim women.
France has shown its phobic attitude before when Muslim girls were banned from wearing headscarfs.

Are Orthodox Jewish women then also not allowed to wear scarves? How about Amish women's very distinctive type of dress?

Such overt discrimination is disgusting – one expects a more liberal outlook in this day and age, especially from a Western country. I speak as a non-Muslim, but support all Muslim women who are being discriminated against for wearing traditional dress.

Life is a lot easier today as we all can blame religion for all the problems and social ills afflicting the world today. Religion has nothing to do with a person behaving like a nut.

As a foreigner previously living in Canada I would encounter parents claiming that the western culture had spoilt their children and that the children were now growing up without any morals or virtue. Actually a person who is able to experience life in both worlds is the most privileged. He or she would be better of mentally as well as socially.

There is no place in the world for special interest groups. We all should be treated and should behave as equals. Religion teach us that. If you don't like the western culture or lifestyle the don't move or live there. But do not move to a western country so you can enjoy all its benefits like a proper education system, medical advancement as well as freedom and then condemn them as racist.

My advise wear the suit in a Saudi, Afghan or Iranian pool and lets see what happens.

By the way I am not a religious nut, I think religion is just being attacked unfairly.

@Leelamani
It would truly be discrimination if rules and laws only applied to Kufirs – as the muslims are continually demanding.

France it a wonderful, free country were the values: equality and liberty and sorority/fraternity are taken seriously.

The continual efforts of a religious community to split the world into them and us must be halted before apartheid takes hold of Europe as it already has in other parts of the world.

This is provocation. We must decide in France whether a Burqa is only a sign of devotion/respect to Allah or whether it's a sign of submission and domination by men who consider that women are improper and should not be seen (a burqa resembling a phantom outfit). We should make up our minds. No one seems to know. I'd draw a blank if I had to explain burquni-clothed women to my startled children...

Let's schedule a referendum. If it's religious: allow it.

However, can we exercise common sense ? If you want to pray, go to a mosque. If you want to swim, go to a pool that allows swimming in clothes.

Can you guys at CNN have some expert explain the meaning of "hygienic reasons"? Because I for one don't understand why it is not hygienic to swim fully clothed, even if it is a loosely fitted three piece swim suit. And someone said something about the "burquini" being a show of religion in a public place. What if I just don't like my body being exposed? Does that make me a Muslim?

Hala, first let me use this opportunity to welcome you back from break. I understand you had a nice time.

It is very sad thinking about religion and the way people carry it. It is the greatest impediment to making the world a better place for all of us. I do not see anything wrong with the decision of the management of the swimming pool. How unhygienic it is, swimming with a lot of clothing!

I've lived in France for years now & would like to post these thoughts:
– it is perhaps interesting to note that the "Muslim woman" in question is a French convert to Islam, which reflects a common tendency for converts to any religion to become (as the French say) "more Catholic than the Pope" – ie to go to the ultimate doctrinal limits to prove their new-found piety.
– to clarify one comment: if in all French pools men & boys are not allowed to wear Bermudas or loose shorts in a pool, it is for hygenic reasons: guys can wear such shorts all day (week!) long & then show up at the pool, whereas a men's bathing suit is really only for pool use & therefore more likely to be clean.
Like a lot of my fellow citizens in France, I certainly hope that the authorities will enforce the current swimming pool regulations, but I have to admit that things are getting pretty tricky here from time to time due to a perceived anti-Islam bias.

A further comment:
I trust that some of you at least can relate to the viewpoint of many French people (especially women of my generation – 63yrs old) who fought hard battles for a couple of decades there to at last obtain a semblance of male/female equality & who find it distressing when a even a minority from a "non-indigenous" religion seemingly threatens this progress.
All of which of course means that when I go to a Muslim country, I do not hesitate to "cover up" far more than I would here in France.

i agree with carole, it's racism. i believe everybody has a right to choose the type of swimsuit to wear when going for a swim thus it was not fair for carole to be denied a swim all because of her burqini or more to say, her religion. we all need to remember that we were created by somebody and He is the only one who can tell us whether our form of worship to Him is wrong or right.

I don't think anyone should be banned from practicing religion, this case does sound prejudiced agaist muslims, will they ask sikhs to stop wearing headscarves and to get haircuts next?.

I was thinking..maybe it's time that some Saudi Prince came into this with their own solution, why should muslim women need to go to public pools at all?..they can have the best state-of-the-ar swimming pool courtesy of some sheikh and there will be no such issue being bandied about in public. I think that muslims have the kind of resources to provide privacy for their women. Might even do well for the French economy neh?..nice strategy monsieur;)..milking the saudi cow anyway he can..this wont make him popular with his muslim constituents. Bravo!!

Betty & Carloe- Racism??? Where did you guys learn that Islam or being a Muslim is a "Race" ??? Sorry, but it's nothing more than a religious following?

So how can banning a "burquini" in a public pool be a racist act?? You guys are truly delusional. If all else fails-just simply play the "race card" and you'll get plenty of attention. Get over it !!!

There have been requirements for proper swim attire to worn at public pools for decades in most places in first world countries. This is nothing new.

When I was kid–many decades ago, I wasn't allowed in the public pool with cut-off denim shorts-- "Not Permitted".

These people need to get over it, learn to follow the rules everyone else-or choose not to partake in the activities !!! It's quite simple !

Leelamani-- if you think there's no difference with wearing a full bodied speedo and swimming cap-GREAT ! Problem solved !!! Let them wear the Speedo and swim cap !!! At least the management at the pool would be rather comfortable with the fact that the Speedo and swim cap hadn't been worn by the swimmer as their daily attire for the entire previous week before visiting the pool to take their weekly bath!!

That's the whole point in the rules for proper swim attire. A swimsuit serves no other purpose than to go to the beach or the pool. Whereas someone wearing street clothes to the pool could have worn the same street clothes for days on end>

As a muslim women I am so happy that France is taking a stand on this issue.
In many muslim countries we would get lashes or prison or killed if we do not wear the proper Hijab / Burka.
I wonder if a Western women would be allowed to wear a Bikini in the beach in a country such as Iran / Saudi.
So if those fanatic women who do not like to be treated as equal to men or human I have one suggestion. Please visit an Airline ticket one way and please do move to Muslim countries such as Iran / Afghanistan where you can cover your self as much as you please.
And where you would not be allowed to have a voice and killed for wanting eqaulity.

We in Iran are fighting a battled very hard to get women's rights and it makes us sick to our stomach when we see women in Islam fight for Hijab and for wanting to be considered half a human.

I travel to European countries and North America and can't believe that Burkas are even allowed in such nations. After such a security issue around the world.
And for those Muslim women in France an Europe why don't they place their energy and actually look into how women are being treated in most Muslim countries.

We have been forced to wear Hijab and our rights as women have been taken away one by one in Iran for the past 30 year being governed by
Islamic government.

In the 1970's e had similar rights as women in Europe and US now we have rights that belongs to 1500 years ago.

As a muslim women let me say this, MOST OF US CHOOSE TO WEAR IT. Is there people in contries like Iran and saudi arabia who are forces, yes. Does that mean that we are all forced to wear it NO! Forcing someone to take off is as bad as forcing them to put in on, you are taking their right ti choose away.

I don't believe that the pools management is racist but I do believe that france and other europian countries such as Denmark are so focused on muslims and their ways of living that it is starting to have a negative impact. They are starting to breed hate. Hate can be very dangerous and I think that it's children like these; young angry muslims, who feel like no one understands or respect their religion that are perfect candidates for terrorist groups. Very sad!

I don't understand how wearing an all-body swimsuit can be less hygienic than wearing an itsy-bitsy bikini. I sometimes get grossed out when swimming in the sea when I think about all the body hair, deodorants, (or sweat), lotions, foot gunk, etc. must be coming off swimmers.
Sometimes I've wished I had an all-body swimsuit. I was thinking of photos of women swimming at Coney Island with layers of clothes. I prefer the idea of this new modern design! I think this could be a new trend (especially with Boomers.) No one would know what religion anyone worshiped if more women were allowed to wear the all-body suit.
Women should be allowed to wear these to swim. People are taking advantage of repressing women who are already repressed. Could it be that many in France don't want change unless they are the ones starting it?

Looking forward to Richard and talk about the Eurozone! No one in the States believe me when I say we're OK, nothing like in the States. Also lots of US experts are saying a lot of mean things about Europe!
I realize start sharing Quest quotes . . . that'll get me some respect!

As a muslim I have many queries fromm women who state " They Choose to Wear Hijab"

If you grew up in a non muslim environment with non muslim parents / upbringing / education where you were not told from a young age that you are a less of a human than men and that you have to cover yourself because of how it effects men or that if you do not cover yourself men would not respect you ... would you still wear Hijab.

We claim that Hijab is so that men would not judge you for your look . If that is the case living in muslim countries women are not allowed to have a relationship with someone who they are not married to or are related to such as uncle. So what difference does it make since as a women you are not even allowed to have a relationship with a member of the opposite sex. That is why is majority of muslim countries Schools are segregated.

Another reason is that we have to cover to as to not sexually arouse men that we are not related to. Well I am sorry why Don't men learn to control themselve instead of us women having to cover ourself. Imagine how hard it becomes in hot countries in summer month. While men walk around freely.
What about attractive men such a Brad pitt or ..... I am sure as women we get attracted to them when we see them. Now those this mean that attractive men should start covering themselves too.

The interesting part is that there is nothing in Islam that says that women should cover as the way muslim females are doing now. This all dates back to pre Islam culture of that region and somewhere in history it got attached to Islam of course by men since it benefits their needs.
From the time a women is 7 years she is thought by family / culture and school so many of them start believing that they actually have choice.

By the way it is not only Iran and Saudi there are many muslim countries where muslim families are forced by families and government to wear hijab and there is NO CHOICE

To Jasmine from Iran

Please stop saying Iran is Islam. Iran is not Islam, Iranians follow Shiasm its is free from Islam in totality so please stop with your overzealous retoric.

To Jasmin from Iran

I live in europe, i'm an only child and i've never been forced to waer anything. I started wear headscarf when I was 17 on my own, I still wear pants/Jeans because I choose to. so I would dare to say it is my own choice.

and for you information i'm not Iranian but I have lived in Iran for 5 years because of my dad's previous job. just like Halabee pointet out Iran is not Islam.
Islam is practice in 100 Different ways, and because the government of Islam is suppressing people and using Islam as an excuse does not make all of Islam bad. You can find good and bad in all relgion and if you can't accept that islam has good, then you are no better than the Iranian government that can't accept Jewish has good.

If you personally don't like the religion leave it, but please respect that some people choose this and is happy with it.

Halabee and Ayan,

First of all please do not assume that all Iranian are Muslim or Shaee. In Iran we have christians , Zorasterian , Bahaie, Jewish, Ismeali, Sunni . So I could be from any of those religions or maybe not.

The only reason all the outsiders think that Iranians are all muslims is because for the past 30 years if a person is not a muslim you are not allowed to in the government. So because we have an Islamic government everyone assumes we are all Shaei Muslims.

Well for me as an individual the important matter at hand is the rights of Women in Muslim countries.
In my passed 30 years I have studied , lived and worked in Iran, KSA, Doha, Egypt , Switzerland, Germany, Canada. So I have seen and been have noticed first hand what rights women have in Middle East.

So my vision is not only judged by how things are in Iran. I highly reccommend that you as a Muslim women for your own future read carefully the Legal matters and cases in regards to women in countries such as Iran, Saudi, Jordan, Afghanistan, Egypt and.....

Then you will see all the injustice when it comes to how women are treated in legal matter. I am not going to even mention how they are treated culturally.

Yes i am sure that Islam itself nor the prophet Mohammed did not says that you have to force such injustice toward women. But sadly the reality that is practiced is very different from what is the truth faith.

As females wanting to choose the head scarf that is fine but you do have to remember to respect the culture and the politics of the countries that you are currently living in. Just as Europeans cover when they visit our countries without any hesitation. We have to do to others as we like them to do with us. I am sure that if you walk arround any muslim country in Middle East with a BIG CROSS Sign or
STAR Of DAVID you would not only be welcomed but might be even killed. Yet we ask all other nations to be tolerant of our beliefs.

I've been living in a southern European country for a number of years. I have visited various all the way up to Germany – and all of them refused me entry with my bermuda-type swimming costume in municipal (public) pools, a practice that I may add, was perfectly acceptable in my country of origin (RSA) in all the public pools in the various cities I knew. I'm rather huge, so battled to find a pair of lycra (regulatory) trunks to fit my frame. I think the only reason for these regulations are that they wish to cut costs (a solid water filtration system costs lots of money to set up and maintain), and if they can reduce the amount of contaminants introduced into the water, they save money on treating it. But when in Rome....

To Jasmine from Iran:

"I am sure that if you walk arround any muslim country in Middle East with a BIG CROSS Sign or
STAR Of DAVID you would not only be welcomed but might be even killed."

Well I would dare to say that Instead of acting as intolerant as the Middle East, how about we try to inspire and encourage them to be more tolerant, not just to those of us who visit but also to those who live there, so that they can have a better life. What these countries are doing is not what Islam is about. Islam itself is not bad, it's the governments who are doing all of this and using Islam as excuse!!!

My point is that if we keep looking at the differences instead of the similarities, we are just going to create a bigger distance between us and isolate us more from each other, and that only helps one group of people; extremist (from both sides). The same way some people choose to be jahovas withness, some choose to have tatoos all over their body, some people choose to wear burka or hijabs. And Let's respect the fact that some people choose this, and even if you don't why, respect their right to choose it, after all that is why are criticizing Iran and other countries, for not respecting peoples right to choose!

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

-Evelyn Beatrice Hall

After reading Betty Boatemaa's comment of August 14, I sent in my comment, airing my opinion about the conspicuous effects of religion to the society. Is it a secret that religion is the root cause of most of the problems of mankind? I would like you to explain why that comment was removed. Peace!

Ayan,

Let me get this straight. So what you are saying that Islamic governments should do as they please and no one has the right to questions since they are following the religion.
And on the other hand Muslims in Europe/ Western countries should do anything they please since they live in Democratic countries.

How convenient for us and how hypocratic on our part to use the systems on both side of the world to our advantage

TO Jasmine from Iran,

NO, I'm saying that we should lead by exsample, you can't teach democracy by not acting on in!! Just because a government declaires itself muslim doesn't make it right! Hold the government accountable for what it does! they are not killing because of Islam, they are using it as an excuse. so to make this very clear since you obviously misunderstood the point: I do not support Iran, Sudan, Saudi Arabia or any country that lacks of basic human rights, but that doesn't mean that I believe EVERY muslim on this earth is forced to being a muslim og wearing burka. Muslim women in turkey wear hijab's but the country didn't force them!!!!! SO TO REPEAT: HELP THOSE WHO ARE BEING FORCED AND RESPECT THOSE WHO CHOSE it. don't pre-judge and think that everyone is forced or that everyone did it by choice!!!!! if this is not clea enough, dude I rest my case..

To Jasmine from Iran

I have lived in the Gulf for many years as well as Lebanon, Egypt. Also Saudi.

I now live in Dubai, where Christians routinely wear crosses around their necks and even T-shirts with big crosses, and in the supermarkets they have their own special places to buy Pork products.

No one bothers them at all, no one asks them to wear Middle Eastern clothes, ot take off their crosses which many show clearly.

I'd say that's pretty tolerant.

The issue here is whether the woman was discriminated against because she's a muslim.

I'd say if a Buddhist monk tried to get into a French restaurant wearing his orange and purple robes with one shoulder naked, no one would ask him to wear a shirt instead before he came in.

That's the problem.

As for Turkey,

My grand father was originally from turkey. They had a leader who was called the ATTA TURK means the fathers of Turks. in his time he abolished religion from government and state. Until few years ago Muslim women who wear Hijab could not even attend school / university/ work place. He also changed the turkish alphabet to that of Latin. Religions studies were also taken out of schools. Polygomy was abolished because men use to have Harem's of many wives.
So ATTA TURK basically moved Turkey at his time to the 21 century.

So Turkey is NOT AN ISLAMIC Country nor is it a Christian country. There are lot of people from both religion but the government is free from the religion.

Sadly in Iran we also had someone who did the same for Iran his name was THE GREAT REZA SHAH. But in Iran people where 70% muslims who taught that we need religion to be our government. And Sadly we have for the 30 years been in the state of reverting back at least 100 years back in terms of womens rights.

Nick,

How many Buddists have you seen going to a public swimming pool in in Europe with their Orange Robes? Or attending public school in their orange robes?
In UK people with Turbin , cross signs or the hat of jewish is not allowed to wok in government agencies such as government hospitals , police , military and schools.

One thing that i know is that sadly Islam does not have the greatest image right now in non – islamic countries and by non muslim. And we can't blame them because all that the fanatics are doing around the world right now. So wither we have to do some great positive jesture to change this image/ Or we have to lay low in non muslim countries / Or try to get rid of the fanatic that are destroying the name of Islam.

Buddist do not have such a negative image in the west. They are know as preachers of Loving God and mankind, Compassion , Doing good to others, accepting change that comes with life, ... and not preaching hate, nor fear.
So they do not have the bloodshed history that is attached to all major organized religions. The term Holy War comes to mind trough out history.

That is why Buddism has the highest rate of people from other religions converting to it.

jasmine holly war was actually a word coined by christians during the crusades. so do you think they should be hated for what was done in the name of their religon?
infact islam is the fastest growing religon in the world.

Fast-growing Islam winning converts in Western world
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/

In the current climate, converting to Islam is not an obvious choice or an easy one, either for converts or their families. So, why have 14,000 Brits (and counting) now taken that leap of faith?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/3663771.stm

Earth’s fastest growing religion, with six million followers in the U.S. alone, reveals striking diversity.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/data/2002/01/01/html/ft_20020101.5.html

these just being a few sources i thought you would find credible after a google search. you can search yourself on your own but i just don't have the time to go through all the links that show up.

Once again the important message is " Womens Right in Islamic Countires at the 21 Century "

We have rights that are lets say belonging to 1500 years ago